Selling a Historic Home that Needs Repairs

A few months ago, I had the pleasure of viewing a historic home that was going up for sale. It was in need of a lot of work, as many 150 year old homes are, but the home owner was asking way too much for the home. The kitchen had carpet for flooring and was in terrible shape. The plaster walls were cracked and coming apart, ceilings had water damage, and the bathrooms were a 100 year old disaster.

As I walked through the rooms, my rehabber eyes caught many things wrong with the home. The home owner and I sat down to discuss my thoughts on a list price, and if there was anything that could be done to make the home look better. My motto is complete honesty, and I asked how honest they wanted me to be. Of course, the answer is always, complete honesty, even when sometimes, that might not be the case.

I told the owner that if they really wanted to sell the home, that their price must reflect the repairs and updating that will have to be completed by the future owner. I could easily see $100,000 going into the home, as the kitchen and two bathrooms would be total guts. The house needed a lot of work. The response I received was mixed as the seller was having a hard time stomaching my suggested list price. They had the home on the market a year before, during the boom, and now I was telling them a price $300,000 less than what they had originally listed the home for with a previous Realtor.

They had two options:

1. Sell at a lower price which reflects the condition of the home.


2. Put some money into the home, fix it up, and then sell for a higher price.

Luckily, they had 100% equity in the home and had the option of pulling some money out to fix the place up. The home is now on the market, with another Realtor. (you can't win them all) I plan on going by the home to see just how much they fixed it up, as it will be interesting to see if the home sells quicker, or languishes on the market at the higher price.

My main point is that when listing a historic home, you really have to look at the homes condition when coming up with a price. While the home might have a prime location, buyers will discount the list price according to what repairs will need to be completed upon purchase.

Do You Own a Money Pit? Part 2

It could be if you purchase a historic home without doing your homework first. This post is a follow on to my first post Do You Own a Money Pit, which featured the exterior problems to look for in your Minneapolis historic home purchase.

Remember Tom Hanks in the "Money Pit" and all the neat discoveries they found in the inside of the home? I specifically like the staircase problem and the tub falling through the ceiling. It was funny, right? Well, it is, until it happens to you. Here's some advice on what to look for should you be thinking of buying an older home.

The house in these photos was a historic home we owned and planned on moving into upon completion. It started out great. Projects were going well, until a major Category 4 Hurricane hit. After that, it became a huge money pit. So my advice comes from first hand knowledge on this project and a couple others we have done as well.

So a couple things to look for on the Interior should be:

• Water Stains - stains can be found most commonly in these two places, ceilings and floors. Ceilings usually indicate a leaky roof and that the whole ceiling will need to be replaced. Floors mean either the ceiling has leaked so much onto the floor that now the floor is warped, or that a pipe from a bathroom, water heater, or kitchen is broken. If a pipe is broken, it could mean tearing out the walls to find the source, and if you don't find it right away, the cost to find it adds up and up and up.
• Slopping Floors - walk into the home and take a good look at the floors. You will be able to see slopes easily by looking at the baseboards and the floors relation to them. Walk on them and you can tell if you go downhill. Start thinking of foundation problems, or settling issues. We have even seen supporting beams cut to put a pipe through, thus causing floors to sag under the unsupported weight.
• Charred Attic Trusses - many historic homes used coal fireplaces instead of wood. The burning embers would sometimes leak through chimney mortar and cause attic fires. In the home above, during the inspection we found a 2200 square foot third level was completely charred. The good news was that by speaking with neighbors, the fire had been 60 years before and the wood was so thick that the fire barely affected the structural integrity. You might not be so lucky and find the damage was so great that the entire truss structure must be replaced.
• Original Plumbing & Wiring - if the home still has cast iron pipes and the original electrical system, then you are in for a huge cost to replace these items. But to do a project right and to keep the old wiring from burning the house down, they really need to be replaced. For a 4000 square foot home, it might cost you $15,000 for the electrical and another $15,000 for the plumbing, and that is just to install it. It doesn't include building the bathrooms, or installing fixtures.
• Wall and Trim Paint - take a good look at the paint on trim and determine how thick it is. Over the last hundred years there is no telling how many coats have been applied and how much of it is lead based paint. Lead based paint is a health hazard if ingested, especially by young children. It is best to get rid of all paint in the home through stripping (a timely & costly process). But once the original wood is revealed, sanded, and stained, the value of the home has greatly increased in the eye's of a buyer.
• Cracks in the Walls - if you see alot of cracks in the walls, beware! Most likely the walls are the original plaster and have been taped repeatedly over the years. As soon as you go to hang a picture with a nail, the "walls will come tumbling down". Replacing the plaster is expensive as most likely you will have to use thicker Sheetrock and account for the higher ceilings. Sometimes the cracks are also a sign of settling issues or structural problems. Best to have a contractor take a look at it to assess any problems.
• Cracked Windows, Rotten Sashes, Broken Pulleys - if the original windows are still in the home, make sure to open each window. Check for rotten wood around the frame and on the sashes and cracked windows. If the window won't open, chances are the rope pulleys are broken and need to be repaired. See the costs starting to add up?
• Non-original Additions to Home - additions can add much needed square feet, but they can also take away from the original design of the home. The top photo shows an area to the right with new exterior siding. This is where an addition was added to the home in the 60's to add a kitchen and studio (we converted it back from 5 units to single family). We had to remove this part which cost $10,000. After the demolition we found all kinds of rotting beams and shady construction, so beware the possible problems hiding behind an addition. We found a supporting beam under the home was completely eaten through by termites, something that would not have been found had we not removed the addition.
  
  This post just covers some of the interior parts of a historic home that you should pay attention to if planning on purchasing in the future. There is no telling what you will find when you buy historic real estate in Minneapolis or St Paul, so do your homework. Get a home inspector that specialized in older homes to thoroughly look over the inside with a fine tooth comb or you might be making your own "Money Pit" movie.

Historic Preservation Commissions

No one likes the government telling them how their home should look, but when it comes to historic homes, many neighbors applaud when the government intervenes. For decades, historic areas have been establishing committees to be watch dogs of historic districts. Here in Minnesota, they are called Historic Preservation Commissions. In other states they are called Architectural Review Boards.

In Florida, where we renovated a 110 year old Queen Anne Victorian, we had to go up in front of a tribunal called the Architectural Review Board. Let's just say, if the home is historic, than any renovations have to keep in the spirit of the home. They are ten times more strict than any commission here in the Twin Cities. Take for instance the 22 original wood windows in the home. Here in the Twin Cities, people can replace their homes with vinyl windows. In Florida, vinyl is not an option. The only thing we could do was replace with wood windows, which by the way, you cannot find at Lowe's. We had to have Pella windows custom make all the windows, especially the 9' floor to ceiling windows. Needless to say, they were not cheap.

Historic Preservation Commissions are a good thing. They allow for some or alot of design control, but how far their reach stretches, depends on the details in the local ordinances. Those that make the laws determine how "historic" a home must remain. Many times, the judgements passed by the HPC can be non-binding, with final approval given by the city. Other times the HPC holds the final say. It all depends on where you live and the local ordinances.

To learn more about local commissions, visit the following websites:

Saint Paul Heritage Preservation Commission

Minneapolis Heritage Preservation Commission

Stillwater Heritage Preservation Commission

For the Restoration Fanatic in All of Us

If there is one bit of advice I can give then it is to stay away from stores that offer historic looking replicas of hardware. They are evil places, built to lure you into their showroom, wanting to temp you into falling in love with their products. STAY AWAY!

Ok, maybe I am exaggerating. But honestly, one of my favorite stores is the one I stay away from. I remember when they first came to Indianapolis, over 10 years ago, and I was amazed by their product line. Mixing in the old with new design was something I had not seen. Their concept was revolutionary...so who are they? Restoration Hardware, of course.

I guess the concept I like the best is the old looking products they offer, perfect for when you want to update your old home. They also offer very modern designs which allow you to bring a historic home into the 21st century. But either way you go, I stay away because I could browse there for hours. I could also walk out having spent tons of money on things I don't need, well, at least not right now. If you are remodeling a home, or completely restoring one, check out this store for some great ideas.

If you are brave, and bring your check book with you, have fun shopping. We are lucky to have the only two locations in Minnesota, here in the Twin Cities:

• 3670 Galleria, Edina
• 791 Grand Avenue, Saint Paul

Trent Tiles

One thing I love about historic homes is the interior details that go into a home. I don't think you could afford to build a home today like they use to a hundred years ago or more. The cost would just be too high, and the craftsman to do the work don't exist.

When we were renovating one of the Victorian Queen Anne homes we bought, the double parlor had two of the most beautiful fireplace surrounds I have seen. This was my first experience with Trent Tile Company tiles. It is quite easy to distinguish them from others because the images are amazing. Below is the "God" image I fell in love with. The photo doesn't do it justice, but if you were to look at it closely, you would find some beautiful work: the eyes have detailed pupils, and his hair has depth to it.


The second fireplace had images of a mother and a child, shown below is the mother. You can see it is just as detailed as well.


Trent also produced tiles of nature scenes, birds, flowers, etc. I have even seen an entire surround of cherubs. (I wish I would have bought it.) Trent was founded in 1882 and closed it's doors in 1939. If you find some tiles, and they are free standing, that is not attaced to a fireplace mantel, then the words TRENT can be found on the reverse side to help with identification.

What's Up With My Sagging Floor?

Here is a great article from the Old House Journal concerning repairing your old floors. Enjoy!

Getting to the Bottom of Sagging Floors

Understanding the common structural shortcomings that cause floors to dip and what to do about them.

By Steve Jordan, Old House Journal Online

One of the most common complaints of old-house owners is sagging floors. In my own house, for example, every floor pitches toward the center stairwell. Although generally only an annoyance, sagging floors can be an indication of worsening problems. Here’s a quick review of the most common problems and a few of the typical remedies.

Investigate the Problem

Typically, floors settle near the center of the house because the perimeter walls are constructed over a sound, deep foundation and settle very little. Major support beams within this perimeter, though, are often supported by makeshift posts.

Continue Reading...

Do you Own a Money Pit?

Remember Tom Hanks in the "Money Pit"? It was funny, right? Well, it is, until it happens to you. Here's some advice on what to look for should you be thinking of buying an older home. Oh, and this advice comes from first hand knowledge of my own money pit historic home from a couple years back.

I am using this Saint Paul Historic Home as an example, so if you own this home, please forgive me. It is easy to see from the photo that the home needs work, but not every home upon first appearance will tell you as much.

I have a photo of this home also at the end of summer. As you can also see, it is usually covered in vegetation and doesn't appear to be kept up very well. If it were for sale and I was a potential buyer, red flags would immediately go up. The perception being, if the yard is a mess, than the inside can't be much better.So a couple things to look for on the Exterior should be:

• Age of the Roof - if the shingles are peeling, then plan on spending upwards of $10,000+ for a new roof. Victorians are notorious for steep pitches and multi-gables, which bring the price up on roof repair. Not to mention they are quite dangerous for a roofer not use to the height.
• Wood Rot - some may not notice this as a problem in Minnesota, but if bare wood exposed to water is allowed to continue, your little problem could spread and before you know it you are not only replacing a window sill, but the entire widow casing and support beams.
• Overgrowth & Drainage - trees that rub against the home can cause extensive damage to the roof and siding, and also cause runoff into the home itself. Check to make sure there isn't any water pooling in the yard from faulty gutters as it could end up in your basement during a downpour.
• Weather Stripping - are the windows original to the home? If so, make sure they are properly sealed, and by sealed I mean "neatly" sealed, not just some caulk slapped up for good measure. Old homes can be drafty and cost you a bundle in heating and cooling if windows and doors are not sealed against the elements.
• Foundation or Porch Sag - if the porch is warped and sagging, not only will you have to replace the porch foundation, but most likely the porch roof as well. The strain put on the roof supports could cause too much stress and make the porch not very safe, and also cause drainage problems. Remember #2, wood rot? Also, look at cracks in the exterior brick or stucco. This could be telling you the home has foundation problems which will require extensive retrofitting and sometimes go as far as jacking the home up for repairs.
• Chimneys - one hundred year old chimneys are usually the last item on any repair list, but if not looked after, they could come crashing down into your home during high winds. Have a professional chimney repair company check the mortar around the bricks. If he can lift a brick off the top or stick an knife in the mortar like butter, than the chimneys will have to be retucked. You might even want to seal them from the elements using a 10 year product that keeps moisture out of the mortar.
• Exterior Brick - too many times I see exterior brick homes that need to be completely retucked with new mortar. This can be an expensive repair depending on the size of the home, but it has to be done to keep the structure around for another hundred years. And no, painting the brick is not a good solution. It will cause more problems than it will solve.
• Exterior Paint - check and make sure the paint is not peeling around trim. Some times home owners take the easy way out and keep painting over 50 years worth of paint. Instead, all old paint should be stripped off, then the trim should be treated, repaired, and painted with new exterior paint. Remember lead based oil paint was used prior to 1978 and will not take water based paint very well over it. It always bubbles up or peels within a couple of years.

This post just covers the exterior parts of a historic home that you should pay attention to if planning on purchasing in the future. It is also a good basis for home owners who currently live in an older home. Use it as a check list for repairs that you might not previously have thought about completing.